18:04:01 From Jayney Wallick : I have recorded him on more than one occasion! 18:05:29 From Gary Louie-PNW Secty : You can be either a Member or Associate Member to hold office in the PNW Section. 18:07:56 From Mike Matesky : Rick Chinn pointed out ElectroVoice employees did not affirm say “sure” but “certainly” 18:10:27 From Mike Matesky : Approx. half of our attendees are women! IIrc, for PNW AES this is a % record. 18:11:32 From Dan Mortensen : Clarification: All questions need to be held until the end. 18:11:52 From Dan Mortensen : They will not be addressed during the presentation, per the presenters’ preference. 18:11:54 From Dan Mortensen : Thank you. 18:17:48 From Greg Dixon : ^ Yes. I forgot this. Thank you so much, Dan. 18:21:53 From Jonathan Wyner : Thanks to Mary and Cecilia for their great work this year. 18:22:48 From Mary Mazurek : mary.mazurek@aes.org 18:22:50 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Thank you Mary and Cecilia! 18:23:08 From Cecilia Wu : cecilia.wu@aes.org 18:23:13 From Mike Matesky : Thank you for sharing this Mary and Cecilia! 18:24:21 From Dan Mortensen : It’s an honor having you all here. 18:24:41 From Cecilia Wu : Thanks Jonathan (Current President of AES) for joining us and showing your support! 18:24:45 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Womxnandaudio.com 18:35:18 From Lilian Blair : www.gearfanatix.com 18:40:41 From Mary Mazurek : Yep, that’s been my experience. 18:41:08 From Lilian Blair : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ipb81z46kI&ab_channel=BennJordan 18:42:06 From Katie Gray : Yes, sadly feels very familiar. Not even just in audio. I get feedback like that for other "traditionally masculine" interests too. Gets very tiring 18:44:10 From Rod Evenson : I'm surprised that the organizers failed to get Judith Sherman into this conversation. 15 x Grammy nominee and took 10. 18:46:30 From Mary Mazurek : Judy Sherman is great. I’ve worked with her before, but classical music is somewhat more accepting of women and she’s the acceptation. 18:56:32 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Yes, in hard rock - which is already male dominated - breaking into the scene is somewhat more intimidating 19:03:26 From Rob Maher [Bozeman, MT] : I'm really hearing Lilian's remark about making sure girls have hands-on opportunities. Women mentors and role models, too. 19:05:05 From Lawrence Schwedler : Internships should be paid. 19:05:13 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Yes - WAM trains girls and helps them with job placement - I was thinking PNW AES could have something that helps us when in programs 19:05:32 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Or at least a conversation with audio certificates and the AES D&I 19:06:35 From Rachel Field : Unless an internship is for a class credit, it is considered labor and it is illegal to *not* pay. That is my understanding at least. 19:09:04 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Oo that’s not happening lol 19:09:27 From Sue Ennis : YES, Lilian! Thank you for mentioning the male/female dynamic. “That’s how men are” is out the door. 19:13:42 From Sue Ennis : WHOA! 19:14:23 From Rachel Field : YES to alllll this, Lilian!! Thank you so much for putting this together so articulately!! 19:14:46 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Yes - I was worried that the “you won’t make music in this city” was a threat that might have serious consequences because I didn’t return advances 19:16:45 From Rachel Field : Also, not going along with some of this behavior and jokes can have you deemed “no fun” so women can feel like they need to act like “one of the boys” to fit in. Instead of folks just simply respecting women. 19:17:05 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Yes Rachel!!! 19:17:37 From Sue Ennis : Yes, Rachel. 19:18:06 From Sue Ennis : Her insights are right on! 19:18:11 From Sue Ennis : Brava! 19:18:13 From Cecilia Wu : It is somehow universal and upsetting that women are accused “over reacting” and being retaliated in a microaggressive and subtle way that makes them lose the opportunities that they deserve. 19:18:19 From Sylvia Krawczyk : Very well stated!!! 19:18:21 From Tom Stiles : Thank you Lillian 19:18:23 From Rachel Field : AMAZING, Lilian!! 19:18:28 From Mary Mazurek : Lillian, well said! 19:18:35 From Katie Gray : Thank you. That was all eloquently put 19:18:37 From Greg Dixon : yeah, thank you so much Lilian. 19:18:40 From Jonathan Wyner : Such an eloquent accounting. Thank you 19:18:52 From Ben Melby : that was great!!! 19:19:26 From Jess Berg : Thank you to all the panelists for sharing, this is so important! 19:20:01 From Jayney Wallick : I couldn't agree more! 19:21:08 From Bob Smith : Enlightening presentation, thank-you. 19:21:15 From Dan Mortensen : Lilian, we should talk about posting what you wrote on our Section website, if you’re willing. The video will certainly be there, but it would be good to be able to read it, too. 19:29:42 From Rachel Field : I hope for everyone to try to take in how much of a disadvantage it is to have to dedicate a certain amount of bandwidth to managing all of these challenges (unwanted advances, politics of sex and sexualization, being presumed incompetent, being presumed to be the engineer’s girlfriend, etc), in a field of folks who have that bandwidth free to dedicate to just doing their work. 19:30:07 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Yes <3 19:30:47 From Angie Dickinson Mickle : Did you try to find a female engineer to work with before deciding to do it yourselves? 19:30:50 From Jonathan Wyner : I really appreciate the call to self examination. We all need to understand the role we play We need better allies 19:32:42 From Jonathan Wyner : Thank you to all for hosting this. I need to sign off in Boston. We’re committed to supporting this work. 19:33:06 From Greg Dixon : thanks for coming Jonathan 19:33:19 From Jayney Wallick : And for being supportive 19:33:23 From Juliet : Really appreciate AES PNW dedicating a session to hear our stories uninterrupted and with open ears to take women engineers’ experiences seriously. 19:34:08 From Katie Gray : What's your favorite part about your new studio? 19:36:42 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Juliet - I love that idea! 19:36:57 From Dan Mortensen : As a longtime member of this AES Section Committee, which exists pretty much only to present meetings about some facet of audio, I listen to what you are saying and try to answer the question of what our Section Committee can do about this. Would it make sense to have a meeting/panel discussion about “How to Create a Non-Sexually Harassing Audio Working Environment”? I heard a lot of tips in Lilian’s presentation but that was not the specific focus. 19:37:02 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Katie - I think the memories of building it together :) We painted and chose all the colors and set up all of our own gear 19:37:47 From Katie Gray : Awesome! I work in architectural acoustics and love designing studios. It's a dream to build my own one day 19:38:06 From Dan Mortensen : We’re not set up to do anything like a mentoring program. 19:38:35 From Jayney Wallick : That might be a good place to start. 19:42:06 From Lawrence Schwedler : The folks who need it won't be interested in listening :( 19:43:42 From Dan Mortensen : Presenting experiences is interesting, but not helpful to tell us what we should do, what tone we should set. 19:44:36 From Jayney Wallick : Agreed Dan 19:44:40 From Rachel Field : Studio owners and managers can opt to *not* bring people who say things like “women can never be good at engineering” into their fold. people who make racist statements can be shut out as well. Get the dinosaurs out of the environment! 19:45:10 From Jayney Wallick : You said it Rachel! 19:47:05 From Juliet : Race is a whole needed session, too, with intersectional overlap 19:47:19 From Jess Berg : We can help provide tools and resources for the people that want to be allies and speak up in the moments where it matters most 19:47:40 From Sylvia Krawczyk : Agreed, Jess 19:47:43 From Jayney Wallick : Absolutely Juliet and Jess! 19:48:27 From Katie Gray : I think the hard part about sexual harassment is feeling like there will be no support from anyone else and that you are the most likely to be disbelieved or challenged 19:48:52 From Jayney Wallick : Right Katie 19:49:13 From Jess Berg : 100% Katie 19:49:16 From Katie Gray : I'd rather there was training on what to do when someone is reported as sexually harassing, and what you can do to help 19:49:33 From Jayney Wallick : Like anything else, it starts with respect. There is no substitute--some people just have to get there. 19:50:06 From Katie Gray : Almost like a type of first aid training 19:50:10 From Dan Mortensen : Katie’s points: Yes, some kind of training so we know how to behave, if it doesn’t come naturally. Intuitively. 19:50:12 From Jayney Wallick : Believing the reporters is a good start--it takes so much courage just to go that far 19:50:37 From Dan Mortensen : As was said about being in audio, everyone doesn’t show up the first time knowing what to do. 19:51:11 From Rachel Field : But not every studio is an environment welcoming to a woman. So simply stating, “get women into every studio” isn’t addressing the problem. 19:51:22 From Jayney Wallick : Agreed Dan, at this point, we can probably assume that a lot of people just have no idea what to do. 19:51:52 From Jayney Wallick : Right Rachel, the studio environment has to be welcoming at least 19:51:57 From Lilian Blair : What Rachel said. Not every studio even feels safe to be in. 19:52:25 From Katie Gray : Right, the women who are here are the ones who decided that they were going to find a way no matter what. 19:52:43 From Rachel Field : yep! 19:52:51 From Jayney Wallick : Right Katie 19:52:52 From Katie Gray : I do not blame those who decided to quit because it was no longer worth it 19:53:03 From Katie Gray : It's hard to keep going when the personal cost reaches a certain level 19:53:04 From Jayney Wallick : Neither do I! 19:53:11 From Rachel Field : same here, katie! I’ve been this close to quitting a hundred times 19:53:20 From Lilian Blair : That's why I started working at The Vera Project. It is meant to welcome and to foster all people, though even there there was hostility from the men in the organization. 19:54:17 From Jayney Wallick : Perhaps women and sympathetic men in the industry could form a collective and start a studio? 19:57:32 From Katie Gray : Unfortunately that doesn't feel true to me, Lawrence. The little boys who used to tell me I couldn't play sports because I was a girl, just grew up and learned to communicate it differently 19:57:34 From Cecilia Wu : We are working on this!! 19:58:03 From Jess Berg : “Beyond Cancel Culture: Calling People In” 19:58:09 From Rachel Field : An action available is to shut out the racists and misogynists. Remove them from the environment. Studio owners and managers have that as an option and a choice to make, and they can make it now. And it is certainly not just older men. I have witnessed this from men in their early 20s 19:58:16 From Mike Matesky : Thank you all! I’ll check out the last part of this meeting when it is posted later. 19:58:26 From Katie Gray : Yes, I'm a gamer as well, and it's rampant in gaming 19:58:51 From Jayney Wallick : I've heard that Katie 19:59:29 From Cecilia Wu : Educational events on this are critical 19:59:46 From Dan Mortensen : What kind of educational events? 20:00:02 From Cecilia Wu : Jonathan and us are planning 20:00:23 From Cecilia Wu : We have already had one 20:00:30 From Cecilia Wu : Last Saturday 20:00:41 From Jayney Wallick : Like a Green Book for safe places for women to record! 20:00:52 From David Schneider : Thanks to all the presenters. It was really disheartening to hear about the negative and abusive behavior you’ve encountered with men. Personally, hearing about experiences like yours makes me think more about my own behavior and how I can better support women to succeed. Thanks, Lilian, for the very practical advice on how to further that goal. 20:00:55 From Dan Mortensen : Link? to Cecelia 20:01:16 From Rachel Field : I want to add also that these women’s experiences are not rare 20:01:21 From Katie Gray : Does the facebook group have video calls like this? 20:01:34 From Katie Gray : It's pretty nice, I don't often get to speak to a group of women in audio like this 20:02:07 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : We absolutely can! 20:02:16 From Katie Gray : I just joined it 20:02:17 From Cecilia Wu : I’ll ask and see if the recording is ready online yet and get back to you on this 20:02:33 From Dave Quick : I have to go. Great topic, thanks! 20:02:33 From Dan Mortensen : Thanks, Cecilia. 20:02:45 From Rachel Field : I cannot count how many times a woman has come into my studio, sat down on the couch and breathed a huge sigh of relief that they were sitting in a room with a woman, followed by stories much like the stories shared here. 20:03:30 From Rachel Field : I’m hearing this about men engineering and producing here in Seattle from basement diy studios to some of the bigger name, professional studios. 20:04:21 From Jayney Wallick : None of this should ever happen to ANYONE 20:04:24 From Dan Mortensen : Can we move to letting people talk directly rather than typing? 20:04:46 From David Schneider : Agreed, Jayney. 20:04:48 From Dan Mortensen : It’s more involving to hear people’s voices. 20:04:55 From Cecilia Wu : Here is the info: https://summit.sheknows.tech/lets-talk-about-allyship-discussion-panel 20:05:20 From Bob Smith : This has been enlightening and disheartening to hear how some studio environments are not conducive to gender neutrality. I come from a corporate background where such behavior results in immediate termination for cause. 20:05:25 From Jess Berg : Thank you Cecilia! 20:05:57 From David Tang : Much thanks for this presentation 20:06:14 From Dan Mortensen : Dan meant people getting to continue the conversation verbally. Intros are OK, too, but after, if people are interested. 20:06:16 From David Schneider : I’ve gotta sign off. Thanks again. Hope you have a blast making that album! 20:06:19 From Lilian Blair : Right Bob, professional audio seems way better, because it's a professional environment and everyone knows what is expected. The studio world and the music industry is a lot looser, and thus has a long way to go. 20:06:43 From Katie Gray : It happens in corporate environments too, unfortunately. 20:07:25 From Jayney Wallick : Yes Katie, but it's different--way more exposure when things go wrong IMHO 20:08:14 From Katie Gray : Unfortunately, in all situations where my friends experienced it, they were forced to leave and switch to a new company 20:08:24 From Cecilia Wu : Greg: we are peers on HCI in music 20:08:29 From Bob Smith : Some corporations are better, but I agree there are many that follow the old school ways. 20:08:32 From Jayney Wallick : Yikes Katie! 20:08:50 From Lisa Finkral : Katie - Corporate HR is the WORST when it comes to harassment claims. Completely ineffective. 20:09:27 From Katie Gray : Yes. I have never heard of a scenario, whether in studios, academia, or corporate, where it has been handled well 20:10:34 From Steve Wilkins : People in power or in their own 'click' can and will belittle or worse, human behavior? Played for years at the Two Bells to learn there was an in-group that hated my music and wanted to have me thrown out... Fortunately Roland Garner the owner liked my music and told them the pallet if full of many colors and Steve is one of them. 20:12:13 From Sylvia Krawczyk : Thank you all! 20:13:17 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : gearfanatix.com 20:16:11 From Angie Dickinson Mickle : I'm afraid I can't stay. But I want to thank everyone. This has been great. 20:16:21 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : Thanks, Angie! 20:16:21 From Jayney Wallick : Just FYII, I used to work with audio students interested in learning about remote recording too. I look forward to being able to do that again at some point. 20:19:51 From Cecilia Wu : @Jayney: Clean feed and Jacktrip are those state-of-art technology nowadays for remote high fidelity audio streaming /network concert -I’ve been using them for o line live concerts 20:20:14 From Steve Wilkins : Steve here, no mic or vid. Active musician for years, worked in acoustic consulting including teaching FAA how to noise certify aircraft. Happy in the University District of Seattle 20:20:23 From Jayney Wallick : Thanks Cecilia! 20:20:36 From Cecilia Wu : You bet ^^ 20:23:44 From Angie Dane and Ryan Lee : mixlikeagirl.com - a handbook specifically for aspiring women mix engineers by Caridad Espinosa is coming out soon * 20:25:12 From Cecilia Wu : Welcome Juliet! 20:25:18 From Dan Mortensen : Welcome to the PNW Section, Julia! 20:25:35 From Dan Mortensen : Juliet. 20:30:50 From Juliet : Thank you so much! (walking and not driving now) 20:31:57 From Juliet : Yep, that is me, Dan! 20:32:30 From Cecilia Wu : Cecilia.wu@aes.org 20:32:31 From Juliet : Ahh cool, Thanks for doing all of that 20:32:59 From Mary Mazurek : mary.mazurek@aes.org 20:34:59 From Wendy Grande (Seattle) : thank you everyone for your input! 20:35:15 From Steve Wilkins : Thanks all 20:35:18 From Juliet : Thank you, Greg, and everyone!